Porn Valley- The Nina Hartley interview just wrapped up on The Sports Swami. Hartley talked about the shooting of Boogie Nights, her opinion of actor William H. Macy and addressed the age-old issue of porn star crossover into the mainstream. Along those lines, Hartley said she was excluded from the film’s press junkets when she was probably the only one in the cast qualified to address porn industry questions. So that will probably answer the question of crossover.
Hartley also makes note of the fact that she has no intentions of having kids.Hartley describes her family tree as being one of social activism. “And a progressive mindset- I’m proud to say I’m a progressive, liberal person, both politically and sexually,” says Hartley, noting that her grandfather & grandfather were teachers. My Hartley also states that somehow her genes got jumbled where she really likes sex a lot. “My siblings are not like me in anyway. They’re all very conventional, married monogamous, regular people.”
Having grown up in the Seventies, Hartley she remembers barely a time when abortion was illegal. “Now it is legal- so I knew sex education was an important thing. I understood that a person’s happiness with their sexual lives had a lot to do with their general happiness.” According to Hartley, sexual ignorance can make for a lot of unhappiness. Hartley said she wanted to get into porno to address her problems. “I wanted to dance on stage naked and I wanted to have sex with people without having to date them.”
Hartley says it’s been her experience that if you give people, who love each other, a road map “They’re off to the races. That’s a wonderful feeling to know that I help people have a better time in bed. You can have a good time in bed without having to spend money or leave the house.”
Hartley talked about her “eccentric” relationships. She calls it “plural marriage” and admits her experiment with it was a failure. “Because the wrong people were involved with doing it.” Hartley says there are people with different love styles and some are just naturally monogamous. “They want to love one person and have that person love them back. Then there are persons that are swingers.”
Hartley also talked about those who are “polyamorous”, people capable of being loving with more than one person at a time. Hartley said her first marriage of 20 years didn’t work that well. “I was too immature and he was too possessive. It didn’t work.” Hartley tried to make it work because she liked the idea of it. “It ended up ending because it was the wrong three people involved.” Hartley said her current husband is like her, a swinger. “We are very closely in love and our relationship is solid.”
Swami asked Hartley if there was ever industry pressure for her to work “with her own kind”. Hartley said she’s worked with African-American performers from the very beginning and that the first man she worked with on camera was Billy Dee. “I was one of the first A-list girls to do it.” Hartley is just not having anything of racial issues. Besides that, Hartley said if she can make racists feel uncomfortable so much the better. Plus, she likes the contrast of skin tones, she adds. “It never hurt my career one bit.” Hartley stresses that the most important thing for performers is to do what turns them on.
“But if working with someone of a different race doesn’t turn you on, just don’t talk about it. Just be quiet about it. You’re telling me that not one of them would be attractive to you? How can you say that about a whole group of people that are varied and individual. It’s crazy. I don’t get it. People who are bigoted that way I have very little patience with. If it’s a race-based decision just be quiet about it. It’s hurtful to peoples’ feelings and not necessary in my opinion.”
Swami brought up the topic of “quasi-rape videos” and seemed to pick Platinum X as his target. “Is that sort of shoving the envelope way over the edge? Or should we accept it a lot more?” Hartley concedes that while the sex is getting more extreme, if performers are in agreement to do it for a negotiated pay scale, she has no say to it. “Do what you have to do. These people are over 18.”
Hartley points out that the thing to remember with porn is that there’s a huge range of material available. “Every kind of taste is represented in adult entertainment.” Hartley is also quick to point out that there’s lots of material out there she’s not turned on by.
“If a person is upset over something that they’re seeing, it says everything about the person in question and not very much about the video.” Hartley says what particularly bothers her is a person telling her they’re upset about adult video and what is she going to do about it. “I’m not going to do anything about your feelings. You have to do something about your feelings.”
As long as the conditions of production were legal and non-coercive, Hartley says she can’t worry too much about what goes on in front of the camera. “I may not like it but I can’t worry about it.” Hartley also points out that adult is a very market-driven business. “If no one was out there buying these kinds of tapes, they wouldn’t make it. These are fantasy material. Just because a person likes watching this movie doesn’t mean that they’re going to want to do it in real life. It’s a dream. It’s pretend. We’re acting. If I’m paid enough money to act a certain way, I’ll act a certain way. That’s me being a professional performer. I get paid well to do the movies but I can only do the movies that I like to do. Because people are at home watching me having sex. If I’m not having an actual good time then I’m letting my fans down.”
At home, Hartley admits to liking a forceful time with her lover. “This is very common for women.” Hartley stresses that this is a big secret of the culture, that women do harbor these types of fantasies. Hartley also said she has no power to say what kind of movies should or should not be made. “The business is a five billion dollar a year business and I’m not a five billion dollar a year player. All I can do is encourage women to say no to things that they don’t want to do. And make sure that they get paid well for things that they like to do.”
Swami then brought up the Nicki Hunter “Meatholes debacle” and Hartley confessed ignorance on the subject. When informed, Hartley said scenes of humiliation are not her thing. “I don’t like it. I don’t like hearing it. I don’t like doing it. I don’t like watching it.” Hartley was of the opinion that if Hunter had something happen to her that was too much, she should take action. “I’m not down for bruises.”
To Hartley it’s crossing the line and is wrong. “If lines were crossed and she was taken advantage of in a way that she did not agree to, she does have grounds for some kind of action.” On the other hand, Hartley said if you’re going to do a shoot for an entity called Meatholes you should know in advance what you’re up for. Hartley said she checked out their website the other day. “It’s not my thing at all. But I understand it.”
Swami asked Hartley why she thinks she’s attained the position of respect that she has in the business. Hartley points out that she’s been in the business 20 years. “I’ve never left- and most important reason I’ve been really consistent. I’ve been on message for 20 years. This is my work, my career and my avocation. I make pornography because I like having sex on camera and I think it’s fun. It turns me on and pays my bills.”
Beyond that, says Hartley, with that kind of freedom comes responsibility. “To my safety, to my partner and to my own happiness.” Hartley points out that her behavior has been consistent in that she hasn’t had drug problems or blowups. “I haven’t had huge legal problems. I am a comforting constant for a lot of the younger players.
“But I also have more education than most people who come into the business,” Hartley continues.”I have a college degree and most of the people are high school graduates. [Hartley’s really in left field on this one.]
“It’s just different,” she says. “Most of them are working class which is a whole different mental situation. But 20 years of consistency has put me in a position of being well-respected.” Hartley said while she doesn’t make attempts to get anyone in the business, once they’re there, she reaches out to any woman.
“It’s woman-to-woman.” Hartley described the situation as being the new person on the assembly line. “You’re just out of vocational school. And you have a guy who’s been there 12 years who takes you under his wing and gives you the ins and out, hereby helping you avoid certain mistakes. That’s what I do with the women. I tell them that you’re going to make your own mistakes. You shouldn’t have to make my mistakes. I give them the benefit of my experience. Let me help you get the lay of the land and point out certain pitfalls and quicksand pits you can walk around and avoid.”
Hartley said her own mistakes in the business were mostly in money management and relationships. As far as other women go, “If they’re in an unhappy relationship I encourage them to get counseling and get out.”
Hartley said she’ll instruct women to start treating this as a business and not as a party, to get an accountant and financial planner.
At the mention of Cumisha Amado, Hartley said Amado was someone who was an avid swinger when they first met. “I would see her at these parties and she’d always be the most popular girl at the party. She could take on 2, 3, 4, 5 guys at once. She just loved it. She had a regular job and this was something that she just did for fun. She was so good at it.”
Hartley advised her that she needed to do it for her job and not just for fun. “She quit her secretary job and went into adult entertainment full time.”
Swami asked about Hartley’s experiences in Boogie Nights and lent the rumor that she and actor William H. Macy had something going. Hartley said Macy at the time had proposed marriage to Felicity Huffman. “Who’s now his wife and the mother of his kids.” Hartley describes Macy as “warm, wonderful and the world’s nicest guy.
“He was never inappropriate with me one second,” she adds. “He’s madly in love with his wife. He is a great husband. He was polite, friendly, warm, helpful- as an actor he treated me like another actor. He wasn’t goofy. He didn’t crack tasteless jokes. He was warm and human. He’s the world’s greatest guy, honest to God.”
Hartley said she was naked a lot on the movie. “You have to be around people who can handle that. It was a really great experience.” Hartley said she got the part because the director, Paul Thomas Anderson is a great fan of hers.
“I read for the part and auditioned like everyone else, which was really very exciting.” Hartley said there were a couple of scenes she did which Anderson cut out of the director’s cut. “Which is sort of sad. The two scenes he cut were pure acting scenes with Macy. Just talking with Macy. Not naked. That was really great and I’m sorry those scenes never made it even to the director’s DVD which is sad. I’ll never get to see those scenes, unfortunately.”
Hartley said the experience was great, that it was a 60-day shoot. “I had six shooting days all-told. It’s a fascinating experience to be on the set of a big movie because it’s like a porno video but more. Our videos take $50,000. He had $15 million. We have one catering table. There were four catering stands We have one production assistant, there were ten, that kind of thing. But it’s still hurry up and wait, know your lines, find your mark and don’t block the light. They have more time, more money and more people but it’s the same action.”
Swami presented the argument that mainstream will never accept adult film stars. “Outside of yourself, Jenna Jameson, Ginger Lynn, a lot of them are not getting more into late night cable.” [Swami needs to bone up more on his knowledge and information on this subject.]
Hartley doubts whether there will be a major crossover for several reasons but she did point out that Chloe was shooting the lead for an HBO series. [The Swingers Club], and that Ginger Lynn is shooting American Pie 3.
“But we’ll never cross over in a big way because most of us aren’t that good of an actress,” she adds. “Pure and simple. We can do some parts very well but our range is rather limited. That’s just the nature of our business.” Hartley said all things being equal, if the producer or director likes her, someone up the ladder will take exception.
“The advertising people are going to get very, very nervous.” Hartley notes that for Boogie Nights she was not invited to any of the press junkets or press conferences. “I was the only person in the movie pretty much, besides Jane Hamilton, who could tell the people assembled how true a life this was. But I was never asked to do any publicity for the movie. Even though I’m well spoken, I can speak in public, I can use proper grammar. There’s always going to be a glass ceiling. There’s going to be a double-standard around sex and women for a long, long time. That’s the way that it is. It’s certainly more acceptable than it ever has been, but we are years and years and decades away from an actual integration.”
According to Hartley in the early Seventies, the porn people went to the Screen Actors Guild and asked to join. “They flat turned them down- you’re not legitimate. Since then we have been considered illegitimate in terms of acting. For most people and their careers, porn will be a ghetto. For me I’m not trying very hard to make it out of the porn ghetto because I know what an uphill battle that it. I don’t want to go beat my head against a brick wall.” Hartley said she’s dealing with people who’ watch her movies on a Saturday night but will refuse to hire her on a Monday.
“That’s what happens. Everyone watches adult movies including casting directors and movie producers and all the people in Hollywood. I go in on Monday to audition and they can’t use me because everyone knows who I am or what it is I do. I myself never much wanted out of adult.”
Hartley is also quite frank with the fact that her talent has a limited scope. “I’m not a bad actress but I’m not Merryl Streep. And for me, personally, I don’t have the killer instinct to make it in Hollywood. You talk about competition? Oy Even when I was younger I wasn’t tall and thin and beautiful and motivated. For me I’m very well suited to adult. I’m certainly available to be hired.”
Hartley stresses that with Boogie Nights it wasn’t a part she sought out. Paul Thomas Anderson came looking for her.Swami made a case that Hartley may have had to work harder for recognition than Ginger Lynn. “Everyone was kissing her ass. You were the one who earned her way as the big star.”
Hartley said she got in the business March of 1984 whereas Lynn came in a year before. “Ginger was always a bigger star. She had the classic girl next door look, the little button nose. I had more of a robust attractiveness. She did anal sex at the very beginning.”
Hartley noted that back then a girl didn’t have to do anal sex to become a big star. “Amber Lynn didn’t need it. Ginger was classically pretty in that Meg Ryan kind of way. She was petite. She was very sexual. And she did anal. She was an anal specialist early on. She was a double penetration specialist early on. She was already on her way to being a big star when I started. She got a six month jump on me.”
Hartley says because of their obvious physical differences, she never felt competition from Lynn in any way. “She always had better marketing than I did. She always had a better machine behind her than I did and she was always taking her acting more seriously. She was someone who tried to get into straight movies for a lot longer than I have. And she’s had some success in ways that I didn’t. She worked it. She went to auditions. She took her acting classes. She made those phone calls and got that agent. She really worked it, and now it seems to be paying off for her which I think is really great.”