Back story: www.adultfyi.com/read.php?ID=43920
from www.lbpost.com – Sex sells. It sells so well that exploitive, prurient, and salacious content is nearly impossible to escape. No surprise, then, that a local church would resort to using sex, and fear, as tools to attract new parishioners.
According to Dusty Fraser, Teaching Pastor of Long Beach City Church, our children could “fall victim to the sex industry.”
In order to illustrate this, he’s holding a ‘Sex Forum’ Wednesday at the Art Theatre. While this could be a thoughtful, meaningful, and spiritual conversation about the complexities of relationships in this modern age, instead it will ask some rather simple-minded and clearly biased questions of three panelists: Someone currently working in the sex industry, someone who’s left it, and someone who’s “stayed abstinent.” It is unclear whether the “abstinent” person also works in the sex industry, or not. Also, although I can’t be sure, I’m willing to wager that the panelists will, most probably, all be women.
In the interview that follows I must point out that, when I speak about religious dogma, it in no way reflects my personal beliefs [Ed. note: Nor those of the LBPOST.com] about anything. I’m using a rhetorical style that, hopefully, will help readers to conclude, as I did, that this is all a bunch of whooey.
Sander: How did the idea of a ‘Sex Forum’ emerge?
Dusty: Curiously, we were thinking about doing a series on sex from a book called Song of Solomon, and then we thought, “Hey, wouldn’t it be interesting to tackle a conversation about sex and sexuality.” That’s how this whole thing unraveled.
Sander: The Song of Solomon is pretty steamy at times. What insights into sexuality do you think it offers?
Dusty: Tons… you’d be shocked at how these old poets talk about orgasms, oral sex, even licking her husbands scrotum [smiles]. Its crazy. I think the beauty of this poem, is that it’s between two lovers that are married and are still in love, and know how to have “good sex.” They fight off particular temptations that they refer to as “little foxes” in the hopes that they can protect their sexual passion. The basic idea of their understanding on sexuality, is that, it needs to be orgasmic but not casual.
Sander: How do you define ‘casual’?
Dusty: According to the Song, sex outside of marriage.
Sander: In creating a forum about sexuality, why focus on what, to some, may seem like the extreme fringes of the topic: The Sex Industry?
Dusty: We plan on rolling out a series of forums that address the various facets of sex, but we thought this would be a great one to start with, because it deals with the “little foxes” that many men and women get entrapped by, that can negatively effect their life. I would contend that this may be considered an extreme fringe to work in, but not to be entertained by. Considering, the porn industry made more than ABC and CBS combined in, I believe 2005.
Sander: Without a doubt the porn industry has been successful, financially, but in the document your associate sent me, it seems to suggest that children are at immediate risk of being recruited into it. On what do you base this?
Dusty: We didn’t think about anchoring this toward parents, until we started to interview many of the young men and women for this forum. Then, we found an interesting denominator that many of them shared in and that was they needed money. And tragically, their parents may have been good, but they didn’t play a huge active role in their lives. So we believe that even though there’s a margin of people that do get involved in this industry, nobody is excluded. Considering, everyone at some point feels the need for money, and if there’s not a strong family base to help guide them, and be in their life, then there’s a possibility that they’ll get reeled into this industry.
Sander: Are you suggesting that poverty is the root cause for people going into the industry?
Dusty: Not exactly, it’s a little bit more complicated than that. This one girl for example, came from a family that wouldn’t be considered poor, but she however, wanted money that her parents wouldn’t give her, so she decided to pick up a job as a stripper. I think there are many variables, and the key is to be aware of them as a parent, and to have clear lines of communication with their children.
Sander: But that’s not specific to the sex industry, right? That’s just good parenting.
Dusty: True that is good parenting, and no that’s not specific to just the sex industry. However, a byproduct of bad parenting could potentially lead your child to the sex industry.
Sander: I mean, if you took a sample of 1,000 teenage girls in exactly that same situation, 999 might get fast food jobs, or work at a local shop, while one might become a stripper. To suggest that winding up as a sex worker is a significant risk in this context is a bit spurious, and perhaps even a bit misleading.
Dusty: Absolutely, and if that’s what the document suggested that’s not at all what City Church is trying to communicate. Again, our primary reason in doing this has to do with “catching the little foxes” between husband and wife. If I didn’t communicate that, let me be clear, that’s one of our primary intentions.
Sander: Item #1 in the Press Release starts with “People need to be AWARE that if they’re not careful, then your child could fall victim to the sex industry – by participation or by working in this industry.” The real risk of that happening is actually very small, especially compared to other, more dangerous risks that are far more likely to happen.
Dusty: I wrote that right before Michelle [Kim] sent you that document, I should’ve qualified I apologize. The participation point is more of what we are trying to focus in on. Kids meaning, teenagers, participating by watching, etc.
Sander: Are you suggesting that the act of consuming pornography is equivalent to active participation in the production of it?
Dusty: In a sense, yes. The porn stars that we talked to said that many stars are losing jobs, why? Because, internet porn is disseminating tons of free porn. So one of the actors contends that porn could cease to exist if this trend continues. Because, if you don’t make money then why have sex with some stranger.
Does that make sense? The implication is, from what I gather, is that if people don’t frequent the sites, or more importantly take daddy’s credit card to purchase porn, then they won’t be indirectly supporting the industry. Therefore, porn stars could look for other lines of work.
Sander: Porn won’t disappear. The Industry will. In its place is a whole community of people who are DIY’ers, many in committed relationships, or even married. Would it be ok, then, if married couples shared their sexuality with others, for free?
Dusty: That is a great question, and I personally don’t think so, because the porn itself could act as a detriment for some other married guy who becomes addicted to that video, over and above his spouse.
Sander: Unless he and his spouse watch it together, to enhance their own relationship.
Dusty: That’s the problem though, to include another visual aid in the process of making love, especially when the aid includes two other people having sex devalues the entire experience. How can you think of your wife’s breast, when you’re looking at another? What kind of insecurity could be created between husband and wife if she’s looking at some guy’s package, that’s about a foot longer than yours? It creates insecurity, and when there’s insecurity it’s difficult to be free.
Sander: So, the real risk to relationships is insecurity.
Dusty: Yeah, I would say that’s one of a few.
Sander: If people feel insecure about their relationships, how can they be truly committed? Is there a clear path to eliminating insecurity in the context of a marriage?
Dusty: According to this Song, yes. Honesty about things done that would make the spouse feel insecure. So that, the spouse knows that there’s nothing hiding in the closet. Everything you’ve done he or she will or does know. Commitment to resist those things. A fight. When the spouse knows that their husband or wife is willing to take proactive steps to fight against anything that makes them fell insecure, then confidence is elicited. Lastly, knowing what makes your spouse feel insecure, and knowing what builds up their confidence.
Sander: This presupposes that one’s feelings arise from someone else. I would argue that isn’t true. Feeling secure has little, or perhaps nothing, to do with externals. It has everything to do with one’s own mind and heart.
Dusty: I would contend that when you get married you become “one” and so yes, you share feelings, you share a bed, you share your bank account, car, etc. This obviously, is a Christian view on marriage though.
Sander: I don’t think that there’s anything in the New Testament that suggests a person shouldn’t take responsibility for one’s own feelings, or actions.
Dusty: True, you personally need to take responsibility in how you respond to those feelings. However, the NT seems to make it clear that you need to be concerned for others, and therefore, their feelings I assume would be included. Ephesians 5 seems to address this aspect in a unique way.
Sander: My point is this: If we accept that each of us needs to be responsible for our own thoughts and feelings, and if we accept that, with honesty and communication, this is the path to feelings of security within the context of a relationship, then married couples who take this path can be spiritually pure AND watch porn together, assuming that it is made by other married couples who have traversed a similar path to security, honesty, and commitment.
Dusty: The problem is, that I don’t accept that I’m in no way responsible in taking care of my wife in how she feels. Also, I honestly don’t know of any woman, and this of course is subjective, that wouldn’t feel somewhat insecure or inferior when she’s having sex with a guy that’s watching a big busted woman have sex with another man.
Sander: Why would a woman, in a committed married relationship, feel insecure about the way God made her?
Dusty: She’s not insecure about herself, until she sees him being fulfilled by another woman.
Sander: Didn’t Jesus say “Judge not lest you be judged”? That also applies to one’s self.
Dusty: I’m a little lost, what do you mean by applying this to oneself?
Sander: We should not judge others, but we should also not hold ourselves in judgement. That’s God’s job. If we have a judgement that our bodies are less than perfect, that’s worshipping a false god. It is vanity, and a sin.
Dusty: Well, Jesus does tell us to judge righteously, and according to the Song, sex is reserved for one man and one woman. According to that same line of logic that you seem to be espousing, why would a husband not be completely satisfied by his perfect wife? Why need another? Why look at another woman?
Sander: Because the divine exists in everyone.
Dusty: Nothing personal, but you’re pulling a few things out of context.
Sander: I am? How so?
Dusty: What do you mean by the “divine” existing in everyone?
Sander: Well, in Christian theology, the spark of the divine is what separates human beings from everything else.
Dusty: Correct, the “Imago Dei.”
Sander: If we see that in ourselves, we can see it in others, and enjoy the physical and spiritual love of our partners without feelings of guild, shame, or insecurity.
Dusty: True, but, why then if she’s so perfect do you need to live vicariously through a visual aid while having sex?
Sander: The mind is a furnace, fueled by the imagination. If I think erotic thoughts while making love to my wife, is that a sin?
Dusty: According to the Bible yes. That’s called lust.
Sander: What if those thoughts are about my wife?
Dusty: I’m sorry, if the thoughts pertain to someone else.
Sander: So, it would be perfectly ok, then, for a couple to watch porn of themselves making love.
Dusty: Yes.