Porn Valley- As Russell Crowe who threw up his arms to the Coliseum crowd in Gladiator said, “Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?” I certainly was by AVN owner Paul Fishbein’s performance on Cytherea’s show Thursday night on KSEX. Then, again King Smut, has had nearly 25 years to polish his act and do it with a straight face at the same time.
Setting the table, Brian, Cytherea’s significant other, painted Fishbein as a recluse on the order of Howard Hughes. Brian, though, forgot to mention the same obsession with hand washing. “This fucker doesn’t go anywhere. He doesn’t do public appearances.” Whether he was kidding or not, Brian said Cytherea, www.clubcytherea.com approached Fishbein when they were in New York to do the Howard Stern Show. “He was drunk or something. He said yes, and he’s a man of his word.” Brian also forgot to mention the drunk part having to be part of that equation to hold up.
Cytherea, too, of course, won Best New Starlet Saturday night. And Cytherea said she had wet dreams about winning that award. “I did pee my pants,” she said, talking about the night of the show. It was also noted that a movie which Cytherea starred in, Cytherea is Squirtwoman, for Elegant Angel won for Best Specialty tape.
“Patrick Collins should be kissing your ass,” Harry Weiss told her. The remainder of the ass kissing was reserved for when Fishbein got on. Brian said he didn’t make it to the awards show because his sister was giving birth to his first niece. “I had to stay by the phone, stay by the house. I ran out and bought Sirius satellite radio because Sirius was covering the event. Turns out they’re not broadcasting it until this Saturday [5pm PST],” a point Variety forgot to mention in its article covering the AEE show. Brian said, swear to God, the initials that his niece has been given are AVN. Instead, Brian said he listened to the show on an open cell phone.
Pointing out the difference between The Peoples Choice Awards [which was on the same night] and the AVN awards, Brian said AVN winners tend to thank Jesus a lot less.
Noting that Teagan Presley was also on the Stern show, Fishbein thought the Best New Starlet award would have been between the two of them. “I was sitting there on Howard Stern. I felt one of them was going to win. It was a good year. We had about 15 nominees for Best New Starlet. A bunch of great new performers.” Fishbein then got into that great grey area in which some nominees have significantly more than a year under their belt. In which case, Cytherea could, arguably, have been nominated last year. “You were really in the industry before that,” said Fishbein. “But we sort of missed the cutoff.”
Brian asked Fishbein if he chose Vegas as an award venue “Simply because there would be a lot less overnights in the drunk tank”?
Fishbein noted that CES provided the original venue for the show that morphed into the AEE. The awards show started out at the Aladdin. “There were about 200 people and it was like a press conference. We gave wine & cheese and it was brightly lit. It was awful,” he said. “My first partner- Barry Rosenblatt- and I gave out the awards.”
According to Fishbein, Ginger Lynn, Seka and Traci Lords all gave out awards. “Russ Hampshire from VCA came up to pick up the best video. I tripped and fell off the stage. They had to grab me. It was like one of those little makeshift stages like you would do in high school. But that was the first award show and everybody came and everybody liked it. Then we did it in a bigger venue then we added music.”
Brian imagined that Fishbein was sleeping and breathing well for the first time in a couple of months. On a similar note, Brian organized a party for Cytherea. “I was pulling my hair out for weeks. It drove me fucking nuts.” Fishbein said imagine planning a wedding for 3500 people.
Weiss asked Fishbein how many awards AVN gave out in the beginning. “Because there’s something like 200 awards now.” Fishbein said there was 20 to start with and that AVN gives out about 100. “But it’s still less than The Emmys and it’d still less than The Grammys and this is an industry that puts out 11,000 movies a year. We gave away almost 500 tickets to talent and that doesn’t include the talent that were sitting at the various tables. There was probably close to 700 members of the talent community [that got tickets].”
Even with that, Cytherea said she didn’t get a ticket. “It was a total miscommunication.”
Cytherea wondered who gets to vote. Fishbein said all the AVN full time writers. “And all the freelancers and the freelancers are from all over the country. It’s about 50 voters. They don’t all vote in every category. The she-male category is a lot less. But for Best Picture, for Best Video, for Best New Starlet, everybody votes in those.” Fishbein said he’d like to open voting up to where a 100 people vote.
“I’d like to open it up to more of the freelance reviewers who don’t even write for us. But you have to know their work and know that they’re actually watching this stuff. I’m pretty sure that the people who vote in our awards watch the stuff.”
It was noted that Harry Weiss does a weekly review on KSEX and manages to be quite accurate without even watching the movie. Weiss reviews the movie on the strength of the box.
Fishbein, however, promised to add more voters to the roster. Noting the growth of AVN, Brian asked if the job gets any easier. “Or do the aspirations get larger and therefore so do your headaches?” Fishbein said AVN is a trade magazine for the industry. “We’re a network for the industry to get information out. We’re not an investigative, inside sort of looking at the dark side of the industry. We try to present a positive view. We report on the legal news and we report on the news and do honest reviews and marketing information for retailers. That’s our role.”
To answer the question, Fishbein said it doesn’t get any easier. “All of the people who are your customers who advertise get angry when they don’t get enough press, or don’t get good reviews. And certainly when they don’t win awards.” At the time of the interview, Fishbein said it had been a bad week. Noting that there are generally 15 nominations in a category, Brian saw it as 14 people being pissed off. Fishbein said he ran into one particular customer at The Venetian Mall the day after the awards show. “I knew her- she was with her boyfriend. And I was with my fiancee. She couldn’t even look at me. I felt awful. My heart sank.
“What I try to say and what I believe is true, we have 11,000 movies a year coming out and you’re nominated for anything, it’s an unbelievable accomplishment. Think about this. The academy awards, there are more movies in Hollywood put out now between Independent, Foreign and Hollywood films, more films open up theatrically now than ever before. About 350 a year. So when the Oscar nominations come out, it’s an honor just to be nominated and that’s 350 films. We have 11,000 films come out a year. If you’re nominated as one of the 15 Best New Starlets or one of the 10 sex scenes or one of the five Best Supporting Actors, you’ve done unbelievably well.”
Fishbein said he’d like to say to some of these girls, “who are unbelievably young” that they don’t realize what they’ve accomplished. “We may not have said you’re the winner but you’ve accomplished so much. It’s going to help your career if you use it correctly.” It was Brian’s opinion that the girls in the industry get very little start treatment and recognition as it is.
“AVN once a year, the awards, the red carpet, is one of the few times ever that you girls get to feel glamorous, appreciated, accepted. And you guys give so much of yourselves in a scene. You’re out there taking dick, fucking. You’re completely and totally exposed. And in everybody’s mind, that’s as much as they can give.”
“It’s totally subjective,” replied Fishbein who acknowledged that while Cytherea deserved her award, it was not to say that she was better than Teagan. “You’re all good. You’re all really attractive. Some guys are into you. Some guys are into her. It sucks. It’s really subjective. It’s an odd kind of world we live in. It’s really a strange place.”
Weiss had another question, noting that Acme Andersson had put up his predictions on AVN Insider. “He had predicted for Best New Starlet, Teagan. No question, that’s a possibility.” But Weiss also ventured the notion that what could have hurt Cytherea’s chances was the fact that she was also nominated for Performer of the Year. “Votes would be split between Best New Starlet and Performer of the Year.” Fishbein said he had a point, that there could have been jockeying of votes that would have split the decision. “It could have split the vote. He’s almost saying you [Cythera] would have been better off only being nominated in one of the categories. And that’s true. That happens sometimes.”
Weiss asked if prevailing wisdom was that if Cytherea won Performer of the Year, Best New Starlet would seem an automatic. Fishbein said not necessarily. “I think Performer of the Year can be any performer from any era,” he said. “She can be a veteran. Like Lauren Phoenix had been in the business a few years. She didn’t win Best New Starlet but she’s one of the strongest performers out there. Best New Starlet is performer but it’s also impact. A contract girl like Jesse Jane last year probably could have easily won Best New Starlet and only done two films but her impact in the business…Best New Starlet is impact in the business.”
Weiss felt there was a curse attached to being a Best New Starlet and Fishbein disagreed. “What kind of career did Jenna Jameson have? What kind of career has Tera Patrick had? What kind of career has Stormy had since she won last year? I don’t see a curse. Savannah had a great career and then she killed herself, but Traci Lords was Best New Starlet. Ginger Lynn was Best New Starlet. Maybe I’m wrong. Only one of them won.”
Fishbein went on to point out the careers that Jenna Haze and Kylie Ireland have had as well. “Kylie Ireland was still in the business ten years later and we just put her in the hall of fame.” Fishbein also acknowledged that a couple of girls disappeared after winning the award.
Brian commented that fresh new talent in the industry generally have a lifespan of 90 to 120 days. “As a practical matter, AVN nominated girls who have had impact and done good performances.”
Fishbein said rarely has it been that a Best New Starlet nominee dropped out of the business before getting to the show. “I think one girl- I forget who- retired this year before she made it to the stage.” While admitting to a bias where Cytherea and Teagan are concerned, Brian said he’s always been nothing but honest with Cytherea. “I honestly told her- I don’t know. I thought it was between Cytherea and Teagan.”
Fishbein felt it was one of those years where there had been “a bunch of great new girls and a bunch of great performances.” Brian also thought Missy had a tremendous body of work. “A late comer which may often times work in the short term memory of a voter.”
Cytherea asked a valid question about what a girl could or should do to strengthen her chances in winning the award. Fishbein said some girls come in the industry and want to be the most outrageous performer out there. “And do the craziest, nastiest, most wild sex. I don’t think it’s necessary. Again, impact is a lot. A girl who does a good scene, is beautiful but has had an impact on the market. In some ways, in your case it didn’t matter. In some ways being with a strong company like a Vivid, a Wicked, a Metro, a Digital Playground is going to help because they’re going to market you. So Jesse Jane who only was in a couple of movies was a phenomenon. That’s all up to tremendous marketing not that she doesn’t have the looks. She does and she’s a good performer. But being crazy and dirty and triple anal and gangbangs is attention-grabbing but is not necessary. I think it’s doing good scenes, being in features, giving a good performance; giving your all, not creating a lot of drama…”
But coming down to it, Fishbein conceded that it was looks. “Unfortunately. We’re in the sex business.”
Noting that AVN managed to accommodate a wide diversity of candidates, Brian cited the example of Missy Monroe. “She makes no apologies for loving to fuck two, three or four at a time in the same hole if she can figure it out, with no problem about it. She’s been in my living room. Great girl, I love her to death.”
Fishbein went on to say that the AVN staff is really divided. “You have your Mike Ramones who is a great editor, the dirtier the better. Heidi Pike-Johnson likes everything. Jarred Rutter likes everything. I tend to go more towards features. I like beautiful women and everything. But the feature, for me it works. Tim Connelly likes everything. Mark Kernes really likes the features like I do. I can watch a really, nasty dirty scene. But I don’t want to watch girls drinking cum out of bowls. I don’t want to see girls’ faces stuffed in toilets. I like girls being treated like women.”
Where Ramone is concerned, Fishbein said, “the more they’re sucking cum out of the toilet, the more he likes it.” Fishbein also emphasized that Ramone was “a gentle, nice guy.”
Brian who’s had to creep up on an occasional glass of water or two in his life, thought Ramone was a “scary fucker”.”But I talked to him at Cytherea’s birthday party and he’s just a sweetheart.”
A question was put to Fishbein from the chat room that if AEE was going to play to the fans, that booth space should be a lot less or free. It was Fishbein’s argument that exhibitors wanted the fans. “They ask for the fans. They may have gotten a lot more than they expected because they used to get a lot less fans. We have fan hours and we have business hours. The thing about it is people don’t understand the cost to put on a show like that. How much it costs to rent the space. How much it costs to market and advertise. How many people you have working for you. It’s an incredible cost. The second thing is we’re in business to make money. We’re bringing the fans to the exhibitors We’re bringing the retailers and distributors to the exhibitors. We’re trying to make money. We’re in business to make money. We couldn’t possibly give out free space. We would lose money. And, of course, we do make money on the fans. Some of the money also goes to the Free Speech Coalition. But we’re in business to make a profit. If our customers are happy, we’ll continue to do it.”
As a compromise, Fishbein said he’ll try to go with more business hours. “I think us and our partners- we’ve done a pretty good job of bringing the business from all over the world. I think the exhibitors need more time to do business. We’ll probably cut the fan hours down a little bit next year, maybe add some time. I’m not sure, exactly. We listen to our customers. What the customers want…”
Neither did it make sense, said Brian for AVN to be selling ad space all year then tell its customers, fuck you. “We want the fans. That doesn’t make any sense.” According to Fishbein, companies like VCA, Vivid, Wicked and Sin City told him they want the fans. “Keep the fans.” As someone who would realize that impact, Weiss made one great suggestion. “Slightly larger aisles.” Fishbein said next year the show would be held in two halls. “We’re going to have plenty of room.”
Another complaint said Fishbein is the fact that the music’s too loud. “People can’t do business.” Brian said he heard there was more than one exhibitor upset over the presence of KSEX. “And their giant fucking booms and their constant interviews.” Fishbein also pointed out that another transgressor was Sex in the Studio. “Which by the way I like the music but across the hall, everybody couldn’t do business. That’s why we all lost our voice. That’s why nobody had a voice come Sunday.”
Brian asked if there might have been a backlash this year to some of the more extreme sex. “Given that we had three tragic HIV positives.” Fishbein said the issue came up during the nominations meetings. “Everyone was very sensitive toward the creampie movies- the internal cum shots. Everyone was sort of a little queasy about it. They were saying should we reward movies that…here’s what we came up with. We have to review the movies as the movies. There’s plenty of movies that are nominated where perhaps what happened on the set wasn’t exactly the best working conditions. And you wouldn’t know by the nominations that we decided not to nominate a creampie movie because Darren James was in it. What we were really saying is that do we make that decision based on that? Everybody was really sensitive about it. What we said was we have to do the movies.
“However the issue comes up and it’s going to come up again this year about the working conditions. That’s something we need to do more about, from where we’re sitting to write about more and to push for better working conditions. Again we had that whole HIV situation where everything went back to normal and people will forget again; and people will be sloppy; and people won’t do the testing and sure enough it will happy again. I think it’s very important to stress to the talent to be vigilant.”
All things considered, Fishbein said it was safer not to portray internal cumshots. “It’s not safer to cum inside.” Brian proffered the argument that internals were “the closing act of an otherwise outrageous highly risky scene.”
Cytherea said she, likewise, was bothered by the whole creampie idea. Fishbein said you have a choice on what you want to do. “You can choose not to do those kinds of movies. Arianna Jollee just went and did a 65-guy creampie in the Czech Republic.”
Brian pointed out that should a movie like that win, the perception is that Paul Fishbein is awarding “65 Eliza tested eastern European performers coming in a woman’s ass.” Not to mention, said Weiss, having to produce 66 trophies. Fishbein said he’ll take the arrows.
Asked if he gets threats from any advocacy or Christian groups, Fishbein said not really. “They know we’re not shooting movies. We’re just reporting on what’s going on. So we’re trying to be an objective voice and give everybody an avenue to report the information. We’re not hard-hitting. I think we were somewhat hard-hitting at least in the coverage of the HIV. At least we got the information out. We’re not an investigative magazine. We’re a trade magazine so I think we kind of fly under the radar there. We don’t get a lot of protests. They’re not out in front of our office. They’re not giving us a lot of shit. The conservative right- they either read us or hate us. Which is fine.”
Fishbein claims there’s information going up ten times a day on AVN.com.
Again citing AVN’s growth, Fishbein hastened to point out how he lived on $50 a week. “I was in debt. I went to my parents for dinner because I couldn’t afford food. But it didn’t happen over night. It was a long, slow build. I have some really great people working for me- the early editors of the magazine did a great job helping to take it to the next level.” Fishbein said you can pinpoint the moment in time when AVN and the industry turned the corner. “It was Bill Clinton getting elected. We moved here in 91- myself, Mark Kernes and Gene Ross- we brought the magazine from Philadelphia. Everything seemed to start to build from there. We were a little bit profitable. We were okay. When we got to LA we were in the mix much more. Instead of being in Philadelphia, things started to jell. Then Clinton got elected because we had just gone through the Bush administration, the Meese Commission, all the indictments…”
At the same time, said Fishbein, the shift in politics didn’t prompt AVN to take a harder edge. “We always reported what was out there.”
Brian wondered if there was a time when Fishbein considered giving back some of the yearly income. “I don’t want this much attention.”
“Giver back income?” said Fishbein. “I’m Jewish. We don’t give back income.”
Fishbein went on to say that he didn’t consider himself “as public” as a lot of other people think. “I do TV appearances but I live a very private life. I don’t aspire to be in the limelight. I rather let my staff take the limelight. But I’ve somehow become this de facto spokesperson. I’m probably better at talking to the media than some of the people in the business. So I probably do it so that somebody else doesn’t it? On the other hand, I don’t aspire to be known and I don’t think I am except within our industry.”
Fishbein said he started in 1982 but never thought he’d get this big. Compared to then, Fishbein said the adult industry is a real business now. “Whereas then it was sort of a back room business. It was always the government and we still have government intervention, we still may have one amazing round of busts coming which the justice department is gearing up, I think. It’s still much more mainstream and much more well accepted.”
Fishbein is also mindful of a complete generation of porn watchers who have grown up with VCR’s and are used to popping tapes. “Porn is the subtext of our culture now.”
Brian asked the question who is bigger- Jenna now or Ginger then. Fishbein said it was Jenna. “Jenna’s a phenomenon and she’s really a mainstream star. She’s really the real deal. Ginger was the biggest star of her era, the beginning of the video era.” Fishbein said a Cytherea now would be well accepted as to a Ginger Lynn who might have been regarded as “just a porn chick”.
As an example, Fishbein said he’s marrying a girl who was in the business, Cherry Rain. “Even I fifteen or twenty years ago would never have even thought of it. I just didn’t think that I would ever hook up with a girl from the business and fall in love.” Fishbein said Rain, 25, is the most normal girl he’s ever been with and that it’s going to be his third marriage. “She’s amazing. She’s a perfectly normal girl.” Fishbein went on to describe Rain as “a child of the video era.”
“For her, sex isn’t an issue- that’s a generational-thing.” Fishbein said Rain was safe in that she did mostly girls. “That’s kind of a challenge.”
Having sowed its oats on video, Brian imagined that AVN took a leap of faith by concentrating on the computer age. Fishbein explained that AVN purchased the Internext Show when it was IA 2000. “We purchased that trade show and there was a magazine that went along with it. Rather than start something new, we bought the magazine and the tradeshow. We changed the magazine to AVN Online. That was an ongoing business that we purchased and changed into our own image.”
Asked where he saw the business going, Fishbein paraphrased something the late Russ Meyer told him. “If it’s ever really accepted and really very mainstream, it will cease to be special. As long as maybe it’s a little bit dirty, people will always want it. I think you’ll always want it to be a little controversial., a little bit on the edge. I think the political nature of this country is that right now we’re going into this conservative era, again. You’re going to have resistance to freedom and you’re going to have resistance to sexuality. Maybe that’s not a bad thing.
“But I think that because of technology and porn always pushes technology, there will be delivery systems where nobody’s going to be able to stop you from getting porn in your home. It’ll be through your computer, to your television, mini discs, over the phone line. It’ll be there. You’ll get it. People will always want it and nothing’s ever going to change. Sex hasn’t changed in the history of mankind. They’re still fucking.”
At the mention of Jules Jordan, Fishbein said Jordan worked for him at Excitement Video, the stores he still owns part of in Pennsylvania. “He was a clerk. He sent me an amateur tape one day. I said there was too many directors, stay there. Don’t come out here. Don’t move from Pennsylvania. There’s no room. He did work for Pleasure Productions. He made those great movies. The next thing you know, he’s Jules Jordan, Evil Angel, super director. It’s so true that I make a lot of mistakes because he’s one of the great talents in our business.”