New Hampshire- Those expecting a mud-wrestling match in the Granite State Room were in for a shock Wednesday evening when the pornography debate took a different turn.
Two feminists, anti-porn activist Susan G. Cole and former porn star and supporter of the industry Nina Hartley defended their viewpoints in the MUB-sponsored event. It was so crowded that 10 minutes before the guests came in to speak students were being turned away at the door because of lack of seats and fire code violations.
The two women, who couldn't seem more diverse, instead proved to the audience they were more alike than people would think.
"They agreed on the same stuff and were helping each other out - they weren't going at each other's throats," said freshman Matt Daneau.
"It was lighthearted at times," said freshman Eric Carlson. "It broke the tension."
Cole is the senior entertainment and books editor at NOW Magazine, Canada's premiere news and entertainment weekly. She is also an author and playwright.
Hartley started as an exotic dancer while attending nursing school and then moved into adult entertainment. While also a registered nurse, she has been in over 600 erotic films with both men and women in the past 25 years, and is most well known for her role in "Boogie Nights."
Cole said pornography wasn't about having the right to choose, as Hartley argued, but was demeaning to women. She said pornography instills ideas that violence and dominance toward women is OK.
"Porn creates a scenario that I'll say no, but if you push me it means yes," said Cole. "The material is teaching that women like force in sex."
Hartley agreed the presentation of porn influences people, although she didn't think it created or encouraged violence toward women.
"Evil people do evil things and don't need others to show them how," said Hartley.
Hartley went on to argue that pornography is fake and needs to be viewed like a cartoon.
"I'm a paid actress," she said. "I do the orgasm I do at home - I just circumcise the time. It's a performance as much as anything in Hollywood… it's not designed to be realistic. That's not its purpose or responsibility. You get realistic ideas talking to others and exploring."
Cole questioned Hartley's point, stating many people who watch porn don't filter what they see and make the distinction between reality and acting. Cole said these people think that what is seen in an adult film is what should actually be done in the bedroom, which can lead to violent acts towards women and higher expectations.
"Why would you want to teach women fake pleasure?" asked Cole.
Both, however, agreed there was a desperate need for more sex education.
Cole pointed out Hartley has a line of instructional sex videos. She said the videos also don't appear realistic, despite their labeling as sex education.
"The information is factual," said Hartley. "I wanted to make hybrid videos all about sex skills. I want as many people as possible to watch."
Hartley said the hybrid videos are a way to "add a little sugar," and said there are videos out there that teach sex skills as well as concentrate on intimacy and romance.
Departing from a basic explanation of her viewpoint, Hartley moved on to give a sex education talk of her own involving the sex industry. She explained that all sex workers are taken to a health clinic where they are tested before doing any films. She also says they have referrals to self-help and available pharmaceuticals.
Workers aren't forced into doing things they don't want to, which Hartley explained, is one of the ways she was a feminist in the industry.
"If my body doesn't want it, I won't have it," she said.
Hartley mentors women within the industry and said she makes sure they get that message. She doesn't tell them what they can and can't do and won't morally judge them on their decisions. Hartley said if she feels something will have health consequences, she talks to that woman about the risks so she can make up her own mind.
There is no use of condoms in the industry, Hartley said, because working for an hour to an hour and a half on set with a condom causes abrasions and rashes.
"Really do use condoms," she said. "Don't copy what we do. We're paid actors. Don't think just because you saw a car flying in Harry Potter that you have to do that too."
Both women said the woman's rights movement of the '70s influenced their feminist activism, but how they viewed it differs.
Hartley said feminism taught her "every woman's body is her own and she's able to do whatever she wants with it." It was this reason she got involved with the adult entertainment business, and why she argues for pornography.
"I wanted to branch out with my message to a group bigger than movies," she said. "I think I have something to say that's valuable."
When asked about gay porn, Cole, who is a lesbian and has been an activist in the gay community for over 25 years, said she has a differing view on the subject.
"Gayness and sexual representation are still invisible," she said. "There's still a real problem representing queerness. Porn is the only place where young people will see any gay sexuality."
If there was one point each feminist wanted to get across to the audience, it wasn't which side to choose, but a collective awareness and respect for oneself.
"Use adult material with common sense," Cole said. "Ask first, never assume the person will like what you like. A movie is not a substitute for a relationship - it needs eye contact, honesty and conversation. All sex is a relationship even if it's only one night."
Cole has watched many pornography films for research and admits that she has enjoyed some, but said the reason why she does her work is because it applies to everyone.
"Everyone should know what influences are creeping into their minds and bodies," she said. "I'm going to fight like hell for women to be seen as complete human beings and to make her sexuality her own so she can take care of it and hope to find true, authentic pleasure."
The debate received good reviews from students.
Sophomores Hannah Ovaska and Jennifer Brown came in halfway through the debate and said they were anti-porn, but came to the event because they were interested in what each side had to say. Although they said they haven't changed their opinions, they feel like they have a stronger sense of belief in their side and a greater case for debate.
"With beliefs it's good to know both sides," Ovaska said. "I got more perspective on what Nina was saying. It made my beliefs more concrete. It's good to be somewhat objective and still believe."
Brown agreed.
"It opened my eyes to the stigma that goes with the porn industry and to the other side I have to argue against," she said. "I now have a stronger argument from hearing the other side."
Freshman Mickey Fischer said his mind was changed against anti-porn.
"What Cole was talking about was more for feminism, not bettering everyone," he said. "As long as no one gets hurt, I'm OK with it."
"I walked in more against pornography," said senior Heather Rideg. "Now I'm in-between. It's such a provocative topic and I respected both opinions."
A lot of students also expressed interest in seeing more debates like Cole and Hartley's around UNH.
Junior Stacy Eastman said she would like to see more controversial topics discussed.
"We're at a time and age where everything's changing and coming out of the works," she said. "Now we're talking about sex and knowing more. As a college that's why we're here - opening our minds to the world ahead."
"It's different than what we're usually having lectures about," said freshman Samantha Wheeler, who would also like to see more of these debates. "It wasn't just a lecture - it was educational in a different aspect."
Cole and Hartley have never debated each other before and had only contacted each other through e-mail, but had nothing but the utmost praise to say about the other.
"I knew what work she did and I took on this debate interested in what she had to say," Cole said of Hartley. "She's smart, read a ton and understands the debate. I can actually have a conversation with her."
"She did fantastic," Hartley said of Cole. "She was a worthy opponent - no, I should say comrade."
